Commons:Village pump/Archive/2024/09

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Please help verify the authorization license of the video files uploaded from the bilibili.com website.

Unlike YouTube and Flickr, bilibili.com does not have a Creative Commons license setting, so users need to manually mark similar licenses. A bilibili.com user contacted me and asked me to help him upload some video files to WikiCommons under CC-BY-4.0 license. The files are listed below, and I hope someone can check the license.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Fumikas Sagisavas (talk • contribs)

@Fumikas Sagisavas: Where on bilibili.com can we verify that this person has granted this license for these files? - Jmabel ! talk 22:31, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
For example, this video file is File:Freshippo torch meat skewers.webm, and the original video file is marked "本视频按照署名 4.0 协议国际版进行授权（CC-BY-4.0）" in the summary. Fumikas Sagisavas (talk) 22:40, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
✓ Done. Jmabel ! talk 04:07, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
This section was archived on a request by: Jmabel ! talk 04:07, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

How do I use autowikibrowser?

I want to start using AWB since I upload large amounts of files and want to make mass edits to them. How can I use it? I know it has a permission requirement, so how hard is it to get it? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 10:44, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: See Commons:AutoWikiBrowser —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 10:47, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
Hi, Did you try Visual File Change? Yann (talk) 10:47, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
@Yann thank you that works great Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 11:22, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Let me also endorse VFC. I use it pretty heavily; I've used AWB now and then, but have found VFC generally easier for most purposes. - Jmabel ! talk 22:27, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel how do I make it appear and where should it be appearing? I started it but I cannot find it and I think I either didn't clear my cache or didn't properly activate it. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 12:28, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
@Immanuelle: It should appear as "Perform batch task" with the rest of your tools. See Help:VisualFileChange.js#Step 0: How to Install, including the "If you do not have the autopatrolled right: add" bit.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 14:48, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
@Jeff G. that was it. I was confused since I thought autopatrolled was something you got automatically. Thank you. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 16:49, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
@Immanuelle: Right, you got autoconfirmed automatically four days after you registered December 5, 2021 at 22:44:14 (UTC). You're welcome.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 13:55, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
This section was archived on a request by:   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 14:04, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Native American fishing rights

We don't seem to have a category for Native American fishing rights (nor hunting rights, but offhand I don't have any content for that). I'm not sure how to bes get that into our category hierarchy: it's a matter of tribal treaty rights, not civil rights. We have at least File:Helix, v.4, no.5, Aug. 29, 1968 - DPLA - 841a1a68f4295fee3a912baf0c87caaa (page 9).jpg, File:Helix, v.4, no.6, Aug. 29, 1968 - DPLA - 73a8fb15a58855b090d500dba021b984 (page 4).jpg, File:Helix, v.4, no.7, Sep. 12, 1968 - DPLA - feeee1d59fc70ba359e15965679dafbf (page 6).jpg, and Category:Billy Frank Jr. that would belong there. I suspect there are a fair number of other files and possibly categories. - Jmabel ! talk 02:57, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Question (in English) about categories in Chinese

Please see Commons:Village_pump/zh#Commons:Report_Special:UncategorizedCategories_in_zh.

I posted it there due to the (assumed) language of the categories, but it's unclear if that Village pump is actually read.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 11:08, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

looks like a perennial problem for chinese books.
you can dump this code on all of them whenever such categories appear in future.
{{Category for book|zh}}
[[Category:Chinese-language books by title]] RZuo (talk) 16:54, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. Will do. Ideally the categories (and files) would have {{Book}} or at least an infobox.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 17:24, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

adding wdib without knowledge of the books only adds to maintenance backlog unnecessarily.--RZuo (talk) 23:29, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Need to modify a photograph in the articles

Hello Wikimedia Commons, I just made a post that includes sources showing a detail of the difference between two species. Through this post it is possible to see that the butterfly in this photo is Bhutanitis ludlowi and not the liderdalii whose articles contain it (and it is on several pages). Mário NET (talk) 04:06, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

You can edit the category on File:Dead_Bhutan_Glory_in_Eaglenest_Wildlife_Sanctuary.JPG.
Then update d:Q1768041 (which will likely solve it for several Wikipedia articles).
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 10:19, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
Thank you. I changed the category of the specimen, its common name and the scientific name was added to the image. I don't know how to change the Wikidata numbering. Mário NET (talk) 13:01, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
@Mário NET: you don't change the Wikidata numbering. On Wikidata, you change the (typically one) image associated with each affected item. - Jmabel ! talk 14:17, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
Checkmark This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Prototyperspective (talk) 20:44, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Announcing the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee

Original message at wikimedia-l. You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. Please help translate to your language

Hello all,

The scrutineers have finished reviewing the vote and the Elections Committee have certified the results for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) special election.

I am pleased to announce the following individual as regional members of the U4C, who will fulfill a term until 15 June 2026:

  • North America (USA and Canada)
    • Ajraddatz

The following seats were not filled during this special election:

  • Latin America and Caribbean
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  • Sub-Saharan Africa
  • South Asia
  • The four remaining Community-At-Large seats

Thank you again to everyone who participated in this process and much appreciation to the candidates for your leadership and dedication to the Wikimedia movement and community.

Over the next few weeks, the U4C will begin meeting and planning the 2024-25 year in supporting the implementation and review of the UCoC and Enforcement Guidelines. You can follow their work on Meta-Wiki.

On behalf of the U4C and the Elections Committee,

RamzyM (WMF) 14:05, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Help us learn about On-Wiki Collaborations

The Campaigns team at the Wikimedia Foundation is exploring how to expand it's work on campaigns, to support other kinds of collaboration. We are interested in learning from diverse editors that have experience joining and working on WikiProjects, Campaigns, and other kinds of on-wiki collaboration. We need your help:

Whatever input you bring to the two spaces will help us make better decisions about next steps beyond the current tools we support. Astinson (WMF) (talk) 18:53, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello, I'm sorry. I believe this image is not under permission and I'm just now realizing it. Mário NET (talk) 02:38, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

@Mário NET: it looks like that file page is a mess in terms of what it states, but if the image is from Adalbert Seitz (died 1938, which means PD in Germany) and was published in 1927 (which means PD in the U.S.) it should just be a matter of cleaning up the claims on the file page. And if it does come originally from the 1845 work mentioned there, then the case is even clearer. What has you concerned? - Jmabel ! talk 02:52, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
I thought it would say "free copyright" in "Show Info" and it said "Copyright & Usage, Due Diligence"; so I couldn't interpret what it was. 03:18, 1 September 2024 (UTC) Mário NET (talk) 03:18, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
@Mário NET: "free copyright" makes no sense at all. Perhaps you are thinking "copyright-free" (meaning that there is no copyright)?
I'll try to fix the page myself, because I'm pretty sure your recent edit (which I reverted) only made this worse. - Jmabel ! talk 16:23, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
Please correct me if I am wrong, but, it's not the case for public domain works such as the one here, but, for CC-licensed works, I believe that there is copyright in place, and there is a free license one (the requirement to cite the original author, or to redistribute the work under the same license, in the case of CC-BY-SA, is due to copyright law: the work's author has copyright ownership, and licenses the work to others under a CC license). So in some cases, not for public domain works such as this, but "free copyright" could make sense as a phrase. MGeog2022 (talk) 09:15, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
@MGeog2022: I couldn't fully follow some of your English, but if I follow you correctly you are describing "copyrighted free-licensed work", and I stand by my original statement. If I've misunderstood you, feel free to write in Spanish, which I read without difficulty. - Jmabel ! talk 22:25, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel, it's probably because how I chained one sentence after another, perhaps I did it in a too Spanish-like way. Yes, I'm talking about copyrighted free-licensed works, and, so, you're completely right, "free copyright" perhaps may never make sense, since there is this another way to say it. Sorry, but, some time away, I saw a misunderstanding in a Wikipedia talk page, where someone seemed to say that the mere presence of a copyright tag implied that a work could not be freely licensed, and I think it's a dangerous error, since it may lead to the removal of legitimate content, so I wanted to draw attention to it (not so much because you thought so, which seemed very unlikely, but because of others who might read it). MGeog2022 (talk) 09:23, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Wait, I'm confused, too. Where did the mention of an 1845 work come from? What is the source for that information? - Jmabel ! talk 16:35, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
This work is not from 1845, what happens is that I used a text from another image to construct this one and I didn't realize that the "1845" from the previous text had remained, I will correct that. Mário NET (talk) 01:55, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Commons Gazette 2024-09

Volunteer staff changes

In August 2024, 1 sysop was removed. Currently, there are 183 sysops.

We thank him for his service.

Other news

Edited by RZuo (talk).

Commons Gazette is a monthly newsletter of the latest important news about Wikimedia Commons, edited by volunteers. You can also help with editing!

--RZuo (talk) 23:04, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

I suggest that the Commons community should take action in the event that Cat-a-lot is slowed down (effectively to the rate of 1 edit per second). I don't want to disagree with SRE-team's conclusions, but this unilateral change to the "coolest tool" has affected many users' workflows (including mine). — Draceane talkcontrib. 20:11, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Maybe you can propose a better implementation ? Or sprinkle some pixie dust ? As long as it doesn't cause all of Wikimedia to got down multiple times a week, any of it is welcome. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 21:21, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
I think the bug was identified two months ago. Something in relation to a change WMF made to Special:Search.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 21:28, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Japanese category

A Japanese-speaking editor is need to describe and categorise Category:Nagoya Location Navi, please.

As an aside, do we have a forum to find editors with certain language skills; or cultural understanding? On Wikipedia I would use a wikiproject, or WP:Embassy. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:32, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Could you use the Wikipedia embassy for this as well? That's what I would do, even if it's not 100% the right avenue. There are two editors listed for the Japanese language there, and BorgQueen is highly active. ReneeWrites (talk) 21:19, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
Yes, but my question was whether we have a local forum. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:35, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing I described it. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 13:29, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Have your say: Vote for the 2024 Board of Trustees!

Hello all,

The voting period for the 2024 Board of Trustees election is now open. There are twelve (12) candidates running for four (4) seats on the Board.

Learn more about the candidates by reading their statements and their answers to community questions.

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:13, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

In case you were wondering:

 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 13:02, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

I have many photos of a ship, but I do not know which one it is

In this category Category:Kyushu Yusen there are six operational ships. Of these ships, two are of one class, and 4 are of another class. I have many photos taken of and on each class, but I am not sure how to categorize them. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 13:18, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

You could add them in the categories for classes and Category:Unidentified ships.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 13:32, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
And it is certainly OK to create a category for each class. - Jmabel ! talk 18:07, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

CfD for categories of nonexistent WikiProjects

Hi. I got in a little tiff with a another user earlier because I nominated some categories they created for nonexistent WikiProjects for speedy deletion. I don't really feel like relitigating it here. Except to draw people's attention to Commons:Categories for discussion/2024/09/Category:WikiProject Iran by city. Personally, I feel like it clearly violates the guidelines and consensus to create categories as part of a personal pet project for things that clearly don't exist. Apparently the user who created the categories thinks it's totally fine though. So I started a CfD to see what other people think about it. The categories seem totally pointless and unhelpful to me, but who knows. Maybe I'm missing something or there's a valid reason to keep them that I'm just not aware of. Adamant1 (talk) 08:43, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

To repeat it for fourth (!) time: these categories are not intended for existing WikiProjects, but for separating huge WikiProject Iran by particular city, although there are some individual projects like WikiProject Tehran on Persian Wiki. They serve as maintenance categories and exist for years. The issue here is Adamant1 yesterday planned to delete everything, without any proposal or discussion, making an utter mess with hundreds of related categories, so I reverted him. --Orijentolog (talk) 09:04, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
The CfD is a better place to discuss the particulars. I will point out though that Commons:Categories states "we should not classify items which are related to different subjects in the same category. There should be one category per topic; multi-subject categories should be avoided. The category name should be unambiguous and not homonymous." Maybe it's just me, but I really don't see how it isn't ambagious to have a category called "WikiProject Jahrom" when there's WikiProject Jahrom and it's just a maintenance category. I certainly thought it was a category for a real WikiProject at first. I certainly didn't know it was maintenance category for WikiProject Iran until you told me. So there's clearly some ambiguity here about the purpose of the categories and why exactly they exist. Just because it's clear to you as the person who created them that doesn't mean other people will understand it and they should. Otherwise the categories should be deleted. Period. There's absolutely zero justification what-so-ever to have categories that only make sense to the person who created them. --Adamant1 (talk) 09:13, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
WikiProject Jahrom serves as a part of the WikiProject Iran and contains things related to the city of Jahrom. If it doesn't make sense to you, that's not my problem. --Orijentolog (talk) 09:27, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
Then the category should be called something like "Category:WikiProject Iran in Jahrom" or "Category:WikiProject Iran (Jahrom)"; if you make categories that do not conform to our naming standards, that will very quickly become "your problem"". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:14, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: don't think I'm scared Andy, making 1,000 or 10,000 edits to correct something ain't an issue for me, and I'm a collaborative person. Only the messiness and lack of unification scares me. As I said to Adamant1 today, if there's a consensus to rename everything, I'll do it personally. I prefer keeping the status quo (yes, it's laziness!), but I would accept your proposal if others agree. Generally it's fine and I have only minor issues with it. Another thing, I don't see that strict naming standards apply to maintenance categories, there are a lot of uneven, non-English and even illiterate ones around. --Orijentolog (talk) 17:37, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
I don't think you're scared at all. Why on earth would you say that? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:58, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: please don't take me literally, it was a jesting message that I'm always ready to massively correct my own errors. --Orijentolog (talk) 18:12, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
There are a lot of uneven, non-English and even illiterate ones around. The guideline for naming categories was improved last year (after an extremely long CfD that had more then enough support at the time BTW). So there's naturally going to be some uneven, illiterate categories at this point. It takes time to cleanup this stuff up once a guideline is changed and that's not helped or made quicker by the needless edit waring and discussion over it on your end.
More to the point, something like "Category:WikiProject Iran in Jahrom" or "Category:WikiProject Iran (Jahrom)" would be better. Although I still think the categories would be mostly pointless and not make sense. As a category like "Category:WikiProject Iran in Jahrom" still insinuates that there's a WikiProject in Jahrom or that Wikiproject Iran has a satellite group when neither one is true. If someone creates a category called "X business in Y location" then that business should have some dealings in that location or the category is fundamentally wrong. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:16, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Image Annotator not working

Hi, is there a problem with ImageAnnotator ?--JotaCartas (talk) 16:05, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

OK, solved, I had "ImageAnnotator" disabled in Preferences-Gadgets, thanks and sorry for trouble JotaCartas (talk) 16:43, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Speedy because "File has no source" but what they are saying is "I want to see a url" instead of what is listed

@Winmyint998: See: Special:Contributions/Winmyint998 where they are sending images to speedy because the "File has no source" but what they are saying is "the source listed is inadequate". Should these images be going to speedy? A few years ago there was a problem with another editor using Speedy with: "File has no license" but what they were really saying was "I don't think this image has the correct license". Should these be going to speedy for auto-deletion and no further research, or through the regular process where the community does more research if needed? Should the normal deletion nomination process be so easy to circumvent? Should the "Speedy" be removed? RAN (talk) 07:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, this is an inappropriate use of the speedy deletion tag and they should be converted to regular deletion requests. Speedy deletions should only be used for clear and unamibiguous copyright violations. Checking a few files that they tagged, despite lacking in sourcing the files appear to be old enough for their copyright to have lapsed in Myanmar. ReneeWrites (talk) 07:57, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
Agree with RAN and ReneeWrites, but things are certainly not helped when (for example) [[User:History of the Burmese}} says source is {{Own work}}, date is three days before the upload, and the license is {{PD-Myanmar}}. Presumably it's the source and date that are wrong here rather than the license, but the source and date are not even plausible. - Jmabel ! talk 16:57, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Are amulets toys?

I am having some of the files I uploaded being proposed for deletion as toys, to my knowledge they are amulets, not toys, considered to have religious significance. Does that change things? Commons:Deletion requests/File:Okimono omikuji.jpg This overall applies to the entire category Category:Doubutsu mikuji Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 13:15, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

They are presumably not "toys", but uhey are certainly copyrightable in the U.S. I can't speak for Japan. - Jmabel ! talk 18:06, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel toys are not copyrightable in Japan. But would that mean we should delete the entire category? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 10:24, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
@Immanuelle: Yes, unless the toys are licensed freely in the US.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 10:56, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Categories which should only contain media of a specific type

what have i just found 🧐

Category:Categories which should only contain media of a specific type. RZuo (talk) 11:37, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

@RZuo: This sentence no verb. (I'm not sure what you meant to discuss in this thread.) - Jmabel ! talk 12:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Wikitext weirdness in Commons:Editor's index to Commons

In Commons:Editor's index to Commons (a.k.a. COM:Glossary), there is some weirdness I don't quickly see how to fix. The display where the wikitext says Bots: <span id="Catbot"></span>{{Shortcut2|COM:EIC#Catbot}} surely cannot be what we want, and also can be really confusing about the alphabetical order when trying to look up anything else (looks like you are already to "COM", but actually is part of "Categories" and comes before "Censorship". Currently, I'm really tired and not at my sharpest after some travel SNAFUs. Could someone else please take a look at this? Thanks. - Jmabel ! talk 12:39, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

The authorization information of two images is corrupted

The licensing information of these two images of the Moldovan Parliament Hall are damaged, but free licensing information can be found based on the image sources. Please help manually repair the licensing information, thank you!

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T374235
RZuo (talk) 12:46, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi there! A colleague of mine has been working for many years on the topic of image searching. His focus is not just on finding images that are tagged with keywords, but also finding similar images for various definitions of similar. He managed to obtain 6 million images from Commons to demonstrate his technology, it is freely available at WikiView. He has tried to find someone at Commons who knows if an API for Commons exists and if it does, if it is possible to just pull new pictures and not have to pull a dump at regular intervals. It would be cool to offer this visual search (quite a different way of searching, try it!) from the home page and also to have it stay up-to-date. If you are such a person, please contact me in-wiki and I'll put you in touch with my colleague. Thanks! --WiseWoman (talk) 18:43, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

"He managed to obtain 6 million images" ... sigh. I trust they didn't clear this with anyone ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 21:18, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
I was thinking about doing a similar thing to train an AI image generator but who knows how it work with all the different kinds of licenses on here. At least in that case the generated images would be different from the originals. It still seems questionable though to just take millions of images with different licenses and use them in a single product in mass though. I don't there's any way to follows the licensing terms for every image. Especially an in instance like this one. Let alone with an AI image generator. --Adamant1 (talk) 02:07, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
I wasn't part of the project, but they did speak to someone. The problem is, that the people change and this is so difficult for people not in the Wikiworld to sort out who they have to speak with. But there is a link back to Commons when an image is found the license is clearly given in Wikiview. I believe they only used images that were usable according to the license, and that was the problem, being able to obtain new pictures but only those ones with a fitting license. The WikiWorld seems so difficult to people not active here, often because the tone is a bit rough. --WiseWoman (talk) 11:42, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
Template:WiseWoman After I commented I noticed that they have a way to sort the images by license and that there's links back to the images on Commons. Both of which helps. I can understand why this would be difficult for people who aren't active in the project already. It can be a little rough and the sheer amount of different licenses with multiple variations per license based on the personal preferences of uploaders really doesn't help. I'd love to see them at least get rid personalized licensing terms. If not just the different defaults down to 1 or 2. There's like what, 7 different versions of the Creative Commons license on here at this point though? The whole things totally ridiculous. --Adamant1 (talk) 20:41, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
Pinging @WiseWoman, since Adamant1's ping is ill-formed and won't have worked. - Jmabel ! talk 14:15, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
Sounds amazing! Have a look at m:Community Wishlist/Wishes/Search Wikipedia with image or sketch search and maybe also comment on the talk page there. It didn't work so well with search terms but one can use WMC search for that anyway and it seems like the focus there is searching by image. I would suggest the asap it also shows the WMC categories by number of images in the results they contain, this way one can find relevant categories that contain more images. Also see my proposal about data dumps (and the link at the top there) which may make it possible to just pull new pictures which would also be great to improve WMC performance and reduce server load. I don't think it will be linked on the main page if it's not searching across all WMC images and is an external site but probably it could be linked at some other page not far from it – I don't know of use-cases where one would want to search by image and not via search terms or by browsing. Prototyperspective (talk) 22:21, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
They also have a tool that kind of sort of works with sketching (but used a different image collection for this one). It would be so important for the researchers in this area to speak with people at Wikimedia to sort out how to move forward on this. --WiseWoman (talk) 11:42, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Are court orders in scope for Commons?

Documents such as court orders like this are usually in PD (I hope everywhere). Are such docs in scope for us here in Commons? -- DaxServer (talk) 17:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

In the United States, all laws, proclamations, statutes, court decisions and opinions, etc. are all in the public domain. And in principle, any of them would be acceptable here at Commons. We need works to be appropriately licensed or in the public domain in both the United States and wherever it was originally created (if these are different). I assume that court decisions are in the public domain in India and our page on copyright rules states that the government can own a copyright (unlike in the United States, where all federal government publications are public domain), so it's not obvious to me that this is necessarily public domain in India. As a non-lawyer and non-India expert, I would guess that it's legit to uplaod here, but not for sure. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:55, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
That's actually not correct. Court orders and the like are matters of public record in the United States. That's different from them being in the public domain or not though. They are usually PD on the federal level, but every state has their own individual copyright terms for works created by the state government. So it really depends on if the court order was created by the federal government or which state it comes from. --Adamant1 (talk) 18:38, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
*emphasis added: "The Supreme Court held that the government edicts doctrine, which states that materials created by courts in the performance of their official duties belong to the public domain, also applies to “non-binding, explanatory legal material” that is created and published by a legislative body.". Cf. Edict_of_government and "Edicts of government, such as judicial opinions, administrative rulings, legislative enactments, public ordinances, and similar official legal documents are not copyrightable for reasons of public policy. This applies to such works whether they are Federal, State, or local as well as to those of foreign governments." —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:04, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
@Koavf: First comment https://answers.justia.com/question/2011/01/19/are-court-documents-considered-public-do-7048. I'd say that pretty much matches my understanding. "the courts have not allowed an enforceable copyright." Although that's different then if the document or parts of it can actually be copyrighted or not. Obviously if the document contains otherwise copyrighted material then it doesn't magically become PD simply for being part of the court record. --Adamant1 (talk) 22:14, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
Actually, incorporation is not "obviously" not public domain and that's exactly what Carl Malamud has spent many years fighting in court, etc. The first comment there was about Harry Potter being used as evidence and thereby attached, which is different from (e.g.) incorporating ISO standards into a law. Either way, that's not germane in this case: court orders, laws, edicts, etc. cannot be copyrighted in the United States. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:42, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
This order is from an Indian court. US law isn't applicable. Omphalographer (talk) 22:27, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
Please re-read what I wrote: in the United States, all laws, edicts, court orders, etc. are in the public domain, even ones from India and works that are hosted on Commons must be properly licensed or in the public domain in the United States, so the fact that it's public domain in the United States is 100% relevant. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:42, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
Are such docs in scope for us here in Commons? That's really going to depend on the nature of the order. Some court orders will have historical significance, or may be useful as generic examples of court proceedings. However, most cases are not notable, and most court orders even within notable cases are routine procedural motions of no lasting significance.
As far as this particular order is concerned, this appears to be a notable case (cf. en:Asian News International#Lawsuit against Wikipedia), but this court order is entirely procedural in nature and is unlikely to be useful as a reference document, particularly given the substantial news coverage of the case. Omphalographer (talk) 20:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the input! -- DaxServer (talk) 07:23, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Is there a way to click things in my or someone elses contributions and undo them?

I have recently started using the visual file editor. A few times I found myself accidentally making erroneous edits. Is there a plugin that could allow me to just click from a list of my contributions and undoing them? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 12:06, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

To clarify, I manually undid the edits in question, but I would like to know how to do this in the future Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 12:07, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
@Immanuelle: I don't think anyone but admins can do a mass revert, and unlike Cat-a-Lot, VFC doesn't have a built-in reversion feature. Do preview at least one example before having VFC act on an enormous number of files! - Jmabel ! talk 14:21, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel that's unfortunate. Is there some kind of reason for a rule against it or just no tools available? I feel it would be helpful at lease for people reversing their own edits.
I'll try to be more careful. I am still new to using the tool but I think I figured out where I went wrong, and will try to use the preview more. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 14:25, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
@Immanuelle: It's built into Cat-a-Lot, so it's not a general principle. Yes, some sort of mass self-revert might be a good thing; I don't know the technical details. You wouldn't want people to be able to use it after more than an hour or so, though, because we occasionally get someone doing nasty stuff in a fit of pique, and imagine the chaos they could create with a year of self-reverts. - Jmabel ! talk 14:44, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
Everyone makes mistakes and if you do so on a large scale and do your best to fix it and ask for help, that's not a problem. Rollback allows you to undo your or someone else's edits with a single click. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:34, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Use of NoFoP-category template on broad categories

I'm in a bit of a disagreement with someone on this issue, so I thought I'd ask for clarification here: should Template:NoFoP-category be applied to broad categories in a NoFoP country (e.g., "Statues in X city" or slightly more specific ones like "Statues of animals in Y city")? My understanding is that it should be reserved for categories dedicated to specific structures or monuments, as some in those cities may be old enough to no longer be under copyright protection. What are your thoughts? — Golden talk 21:31, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

The (English) text of the template suggests to me that it's meant for specific works, not classes. Not entirely sure if we should have such a template.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 21:47, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
I would never put it on that broad a category. - Jmabel ! talk 23:07, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
I agree with Enhancing999 and Jmabel. This belongs as a category header for specific works in NoFoP countries, for the reason you stated. ReneeWrites (talk) 10:23, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
Totally agree with everyone else. It doesn't make sense to use the template on a general topic because works in the category (or that will be uploaded to it) will inevitable be PD due to age or other factors. --Adamant1 (talk) 10:30, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
  • Disagree I now accept that the template should not be used in broad categories. All such templates that I erroneously added to categories have been helpfully deleted by the nominator and his friends. Thanks for that guys. Moving to non-broad category usage, the example cited - "Statues of animals in Y city" - does not fit the broad criterion in my view. As I mentioned to @Golden: on my talk page, "In the case of the "Statues_of_animals_in Qəbələ" category, I see two pics of wooden eagles and one pic of dinosaurs. I conclude that it is not general, it is not broad, the statues are new, it is quite specific (a triple intersection of art (statue), subject(animals) and location (Qəbələ)). So as far as I'm concerned, it meets all of the criteria". Certainly where all the pics in a category contain nothing but images which, of themselves, would all be legitimate candidates for marking with the template "NoFoP-Azerbaijan", then I think that a categorical marking is merited and a more efficient use of editors' time. Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:23, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
    @Laurel Lodged or better, leave the generalized categories with no such templates? I was the one who proposed this template and its original purpose was for specific works. Leaving the generalized categories without such templates removes the unsightly clutter in the said categories. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 13:45, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
    TBH, I can see the merit of using this template in certain broad categories where virtually any photo will be a FoP violation. For instance, Qatar has strict FoP, and essentially no buildings or public artwork old enough to be in the public domain, so placing FoP warning templates on related categories might be warranted. Omphalographer (talk) 21:02, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
@Omphalographer: I'd be interested to know what exactly you think the merrits of doing it that way are. People are going to add images of copyrighted works to the categories regardless. The same could be said for the main categories for the subjects in the image, but at least users expect to see the template there. Plus at least in my experience broad categories tend to not be persistent anyway. So it's just encouraging people to add the template to the main subject level category instead of the one for the particular work and in an instance where the template will likely be removed or deleted at some point anyway. Categories for specific works at least have less chance of being deleted, and again, users expect the template to be there. --Adamant1 (talk) 00:12, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
The sort of situation I have in mind is where more specific subcategories might not exist on Commons because any image of the subjects would be non-free. It'd be analogous to {{NoUploads}}, which we use on categories for many well-known artists whose works are mostly non-free. Omphalographer (talk) 20:04, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
@Omphalographer: I just fixed Adamant1's ping above, so it may not have pinged you. - Jmabel ! talk 06:52, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Template:How to delete empty categories

When working on Commons:Report Special:UncategorizedCategories, I noticed that many categories are there, merely because users don't know how to have categories deleted with typos or other minor problems.

Template:How to delete empty categories (brought to my attention by @Jmabel) is meant to explain it to them.

I think it could be formulated better, though I'm not entirely sure how. Personally I prefer {{Badname}} or {{empty, parentless category}}. Also I noticed some users adding {{SD|C2}} including nowiki tags.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 12:50, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Someone is not doing it right if they include those nowiki tags.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 03:18, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, accordingly, I hope we can improve the template
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 09:07, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
I usually just use C2 unless it's clearly a bad name. I actually didn't know C1 was an option until just now. So things could clearly be explained better. Heck if I have any idea how though. --Adamant1 (talk) 03:31, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
Whatever we do: keep the template short. If this is going to turn into a wall of text, it should be in a page linked from the template, not the template itself. - Jmabel ! talk 06:55, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
Yeah. It's an important template. Commons:Report Special:UncategorizedCategories is again full of categories that could have been tagged for speedy deletion.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 07:01, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Button for 3D models added on main page

A button that shows the 3D models was added on the main page, next to images and videos. It is a good point in time to highlight textured meshes that could be presented :) --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 11:41, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Munich metro type

I would normaly put these metrotrains into the Category:MVG C (U-Bahn München), However the windows are different to the other images in that category. They ont have the pull open part. Is this an early C type, where later the windows where replaced or is it a totaly different type? Smiley.toerist (talk) 11:20, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Might be worth reaching out about on the German Wikipedia? Portal Diskussion:Bahn ReneeWrites (talk) 13:57, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
That's a Type C with the wooden seats near the door. The skylight windows are only on one side of the vehicle (most likely to avoid "Zugluft"). -- Herbert Ortner (talk) 20:58, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Footage from security cameras in the US

Someone remind me again what is the copyright status of this? Trade (talk) 11:34, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Selection of deprecated categories in category entry fields

Hi, when entering categories, category names that have been deprecated and redirected, such as, let's say, Category:SS Shieldhall, pop up in the list of suggestions in the same way as any other category, without any warning or labelling, so it is easy to choose them and never notice that you shouldn't have. I wonder whether this could be handled better somehow. ITookSomePhotos (talk) 20:10, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

@ITookSomePhotos: Can you say which category entry fields have this problem? Because when I enter that category in the one on Special:Upload, it gets automatically converted into the correct category when I click "OK". Similarly if I try to add it to a file using HotCat or enter it into Cat-a-lot. --bjh21 (talk) 21:22, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
I used the Upload Wizard. I uploaded some pictures of the ship "SS Shieldhall", typed "SS Shie..." in the category field, and then selected Category:SS Shieldhall from the list. Later, when for interest I went to look at what other images there were in that category, I found only mine, plus the redirection notice. The I manually changed my images to Category:Shieldhall (ship, 1955). This has happened to me before, with other categories too, though I can't remember specific examples now, but most probably these were also entered via the Upload Wizard. ITookSomePhotos (talk) 23:29, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
Things like that are exactly why I usually just nominate obsolete categories for deletion instead of redirecting them. 99% the redirect isn't useful anyway and it just cause more problems or work in the long run. There's absolutely no reason the few redirects that are worth having should show up in search results though. --Adamant1 (talk) 02:09, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
@Adamant1: I disagree. It's very helpful (to me at least) that Category:Herons, a redirect to Category:Ardeidae, turns up in search results, because it means that I type the word that I'm familiar with into HotCat and it will use the correct category. --bjh21 (talk) 12:06, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
I mean sure they are helpful in some cases. I didn't say they are absolutely worthless, but I've seen plenty of instances where the category should have just been deleted instead of redirected. The fact is that they are way over used. --Adamant1 (talk) 12:10, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
  • HotCat automatically converts the redirect cat and it's only a problem if the two category titles start of the same way because then one may wonder which of the two autocompletes are the one to pick.
  • For categories in the Upload Wizard, people already called for this in the Upload Wizard improvements talk page, e.g. here but maybe there should be a new thread about this since it probably should be fixed and HotCat already does this. I think files are automatically moved out of redirect categories and usually also out of disambiguation cats. If somebody knows whether this is done automatically please add info about this (like how long it takes).
Prototyperspective (talk) 11:35, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
As mentioned in that thread about Upload Wizard improvements, files are moved out of redirected categories by RussBot. Based on its recent contributions it runs daily, so you should allow at least a day for a new upload to be moved out of redirected categories. --bjh21 (talk) 12:18, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
Thanks, I didn't know that there was an automated process to do this. ITookSomePhotos (talk) 16:50, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
Hopefully it's still dealt with eventually even if there's a bot to move the files. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:55, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Abusefilter to prevent uncategorised pages？

are all pages in main and category namespaces supposed to be categorised? if so then perhaps an abusefilter can be created to prevent creation of such pages without any "Category" or "{{" in source? (pages are categorised either directly or by transcluding a template.) RZuo (talk) 11:12, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

The ones on Commons:Report UncategorizedCategories with infobox all have "{{".
To update the list I have to purge recent creations to ensure those connected to Wikidata, but without edits since don't end up there.
For files, everything just ends up in Category:All_media_needing_categories_as_of_2024. Do users still get notified when they don't categorize?
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 11:38, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
My experience is that especially some bulk bot uploads from external sources (like flickr) are not properly categorized or not categorized at all. While inexperienced users fail to categorize quite often, they do not upload such huge numbers of media to commons. So coping with lacking categories by inexperienced users is manageable. But bulk uploaders can work around such an abusefilter by adding some not helpful category like Category:Files from xxxx stream on flickr needing categories and not taking care for proper categorization. Even if bulk uploaders do proper categorization, they will do this in a second step after uploading - an abusefilter will just disable their usual procedures.
for the cat mentioned above, https://wikimap.toolforge.org/?cat=All_media_needing_categories_as_of_2024 will show (after a while) images on the map and then it is easy to care for your area of interest. best --Herzi Pinki (talk) 21:54, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
"pages in main and category namespaces". not files. RZuo (talk) 09:29, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
Yes, but the approach used for files could be applied to categories as well. There already is a (mostly empty) Category:Uncategorized categories.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 09:35, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
Category:Uncategorized categories is "mostly empty" at the moment, but only because it was recently winnowed down from over 1500 categories. A year ago, it had ballooned to about 8000, and those past 5000 in alphabetical order couldn't even be seen in the list. - Jmabel ! talk 06:27, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
You mean Special:UncategorizedCategories, not Category:Uncategorized categories, isn't it?
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 06:42, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
@Enhancing999: Oops, you are correct, I should have clicked before assuming I knew what you meant. - Jmabel ! talk 21:30, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Feedback research

Mandatory settings must be made regarding image classification before uploading them. Otherwise, the site will be flooded with images and it will be difficult to find images when searching. Mohmad Abdul sahib 02:05, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

It's unclear what you're asking for. Files have filetitles and categories and both are used (alongside descriptions) to find and organize images. Prototyperspective (talk) 21:43, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Is there a categories need to be improved tag?

There is an uncategorized tag, but what about a categories need to be improved tag? Like something I would add in the event that I see a random photo on a farm somewhere in Japan but all it is categorized as is just "Japan" Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 04:37, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: yes, {{Check categories}} and the corresponding Category:Media needing category review. MKFI (talk) 06:28, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
You can dissiminate it it easily into:
It’s a start whence other people can pick from. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 18:28, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
There's also Category:Files needing categories‎ (see Category:Commons needing categorization). Tools to easily/quickly add the mentioned tag would be useful as well as scripts adding it to files. Many of un/badly categorized files are problematic or simply low-quality. Prototyperspective (talk) 21:47, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
I was going to mention Category:Unidentified locations in Japan. I'm not a super big fan of the whole "unidentified" category thing myself but there doesn't seem to be anything better at this point. --Adamant1 (talk) 21:53, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Crop Tool SNAFU

Crop tool is not working, again. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:24, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

What's SNAFU? --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 14:23, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
Situation Normal: All Fucked Up. Means the Crop tool is broken but this is not unusual. ReneeWrites (talk) 14:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
Ah thank you :) --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 16:32, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
"! 502 The CropTool backend is currently having problems." is one message I have gotten all day. -- Ooligan (talk) 00:42, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Super-CfDs

Hi everyone, we recently had an alert about the CfD on the issue of “Georgia” here in the village pump, and now I realized that “Historical images” is eerily similar. The result of this second CfD was essentially: "delete and upmerge to Category:History". There is sound reasoning to do so, but we're talking about the previous parent category to numberless sub categories (I cannot even give estimations on a probable number... tens of thousands?), which are currently all in a waiting list for getting deleted and upmerged, one by one. This campaign is lasting for months already, I have no clue what the percentage of completion is on that front. Various angry protests of various kinds against this action have not been organized well, and the prevailing counter-argument is: "the CfD lasted many years, we reached consensus, there were no counter-proposals".

My concerns on this issue were close to nil previously (again: there was sound reasoning), but now I've checked Commons:CFD for guidelines on CfDs that process multiple categories. The guidelines imply that the concerned categories should be mentioned in the CfD, but that was not done in either of these two cases. Only the top-most parent category was put up for debate, and I'm fairly certain now: The reason it took five years to gather a meager ten votes was not because there was no interest. Rather, there were only ten votes because close to nobody was aware that this debate was ongoing. Not until the bulldozers arrived at the front doors.

Sound reasoning and good intentions or not: Not notifying those who are going feel the impact of your decision, is the behavior of the Vogons from "Hitchhiker to the Galaxis".

The particular CfDs I linked initially should not be debated here. I'd rather like to focus on our CfD procedures. In fundamental cases like these two mentioned above - can we agree that all concerned child categories (i.e. the ones that are going to be affected by the CfD, because of similar naming conventions) should have the same CfD notification in their header? --Enyavar (talk) 23:31, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Commons:Categories for discussion/2024/09/Category:Towers in Iran, mentioned a couple of threads above this, is another CfD that would affect a hundred categories but has only been raised against one (and not even the top one). Belbury (talk) 07:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
I wouldn't say Commons:Categories for discussion/2024/09/Category:Towers in Iran is the same as the one for "historical images" because there's a pretty clear guideline I was following. The CfD was only started because someone decided to edit war me and a couple of admins over it. Otherwise the CfD wouldn't have been necessary. I don't really think it was necessary to notify everyone who came within 100 miles of a "towers" category in the last 20 years in that case though. Since again, 99% of the issue that led the CfD was caused by a single user.
Really, the same goes for the "historical images" CfD. Although I do think it should have at least been announced on the Village Pump after it was closed. It clearly wouldn't have been workable for the closing admin to notifying everyone who was going to be impacted by it though. Same goes for the nominator putting a CfD notification in the header of every category involved. It's ridiculous to suggest people should notify hundreds of people or put a notification in the header of potentially thousands of categories just for the outcome of a CfD to be valid. Neither one is really a fair, workable way to do things. There should have at least been a notification about the outcome of the CfD for "historical images" on the Village Pump once it was closed though, but that's more then enough IMO. --Adamant1 (talk) 08:11, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
I think it would be better if a large-scale CfD was announced at the village pump right after it was opened rather than closed, so more people can read the discussion and participate. Once a discussion is closed you're not supposed to start it up again. ReneeWrites (talk) 14:20, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
Either way. The main issue for me is that I just don't think it's fair to expect whomever opens the CfD to add the notification template to hundreds or thousands of sub-categories. Although it's debatable what makes something a "super-CfD" to begin with and the expectation should be that people normally find them through Commons:Categories for discussion. To the degree that it's not a good way to find important CfDs is more about the backlog then anything. It wouldn't be as much of an issue if there wasn't such a huge backlog though. ---Adamant1 (talk) 06:53, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
Of course, we have so many CfDs, and what I called here "Super-CfDs" are exceptionally rare. Just because a CfD is about a top-most super-category (like here) does not mean that all sub-categories need to be notified. In case of Category:Past, only the super-category itself will be affected, no cascading effects. So no need to notify, of course.
But: Once it becomes clear that a CfD will have impact on its structured subcategories (like deletion or renaming), all these subcategories should get a notification. These rare and special discussions are long-lasting anyway, so if there are hundreds or more of impacted subcategories that all have the same naming structure (like "Historical images of" or "in/of Georgia"), a bot-job should be tasked with inserting the CfD-note on all these subcategories. This should not be the job of the original CfD-opener (for example, in case that the CfD is uncontroversially rejected or doesn't change anything in the sub-categories). But once it becomes clear that a large impact will happen as a result, then a wide-spread notification is necessary, before continuing the CfD for another appropriately long time. And I would hope that our guidelines can be amended, to include this as a future rule. --Enyavar (talk) 12:52, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
I guess you could do it with a bot. But it seems like derailing to put the notifications on the pages once it becomes clear that a CfD will have impact on its structured subcategories. There's already going to be clear consensus to delete or rename the categories at that point. So the only reason to find more people to participate in the CfD would be to change the outcome. Especially since people who created the categories to begin with, which realistically are the being notified about the CfD at that point, are going to vote to a certain way. How is that any different then canvasing? --Adamant1 (talk) 22:36, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Familytree

@Enhancing999: See: Category:Byington Ford A change was just made to collapse the family tree function in categories as the default. Now it isn't obvious that the navigation device is there. What are people's preferences? Which is the most useful? RAN (talk) 13:14, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't recall ever seeing this before and don't see the purpose of it here. If I want to know genealogical information, Wikidata and Wikipedia are appropriate for that. I guess that it's useful for navigating within the same family, but that is pretty niche and probably not something I would ever use. That said, I generally don't like auto-collapsing any actual content and the default should be for these to be uncollapsed. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 13:16, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
There was a bug in the classes used by the template, see Template_talk:Wikidata/FamilyTree#class="collapsible_autocollapse"_not_working. This was fixed today.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 13:19, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
I don't see how that responds to what I wrote, but it does seem to respond to the original comment. How is what you wrote relevant to what I wrote? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 13:47, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
You write that you prefer it in an uncollapsed form. If you read my comment and its link to additional discussion then you discover that your preference leads to category pages being replaced by family trees. I think this response both to the original comment and yours.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 13:50, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 14:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
I think it should be collapsed if it is to be included in category pages. That's not really what category pages are for, not how or where people look for such data and it hides category contents (mainly subcats and files) as well as cause UI issues. Another example. Prototyperspective (talk) 13:44, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
  • The new template has been around since 2019, replacing the hand built trees that been around for a decade or more. You only see them where the person is a member of a large family such as in royal/noble lines. It isn't decorative, it is a navigation device. It sometimes is the only way to see that there is a disconnection in the family, caused by incorrect merges or the deletion of someone in the family when someone doesn't realize it has a structural need. The problem is that in the current collapsed state it is not obvious that a tree is present. --RAN (talk) 16:59, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
    The problem is that in the current collapsed state it is not obvious that a tree is present. Because the way it's wrapped into a collapsed box is having it show only the text "Byington Ford (Q5004096) [Expand]" (in this example) instead of e.g. "Show family tree [Expand]". The name is already in the cat so redundant and the Q number is not useful to the reader and also already on the page via the infobox. Prototyperspective (talk) 17:07, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
    I think "autocollapse" is the old version for collapsed state. It must have been designed to be collapsed.
    The header of the template should be improved. Merely using the name of a person and a quid doesn't really explain what it's meant to be. This isn't really better when it's expanded and covers the entire screen.
     ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 17:08, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
  • See: Category:Thomas_Jefferson where consensus was to have the tree collapsed so a collapse function was wrapped around the tree, now it is doubly collapsed. --RAN (talk) 17:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
    Seems the problem was known, but incorrectly fixed.
     ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 17:19, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
One thing I like about the wrapper on Category:Thomas Jefferson is that it actually says "Family Tree". If that text got added in the template header it would already tell people a lot more on what the information is about before/without having to expand it. ReneeWrites (talk) 18:20, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
Having it say "Family Tree" is great, having it doubly collapsed is probably something we should fix. - Jmabel ! talk 18:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
Looking at the Thomas Jefferson example: do I understand correctly that the tree reads right-to-left, and that for the central figure there is no indication who is the other parent of their various children, nor is there any indication of legitimate vs. illegitimate offspring? - Jmabel ! talk 19:03, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
Oh my goodness, this is heinous: now there are two collapsed boxes and you have to vertically scroll within a div?!?!? This is inaccessible and poor web design, folks. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:11, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
  • About the label issue, it's seems that the default text is "Family Tree (tree of ancestors and descendants)", but somehow this is overwritten sometimes by the QID. It seems that the template is just not used as designed: Sample at Category:Ulrica Christina Wellingk, the default is overwritten with |title={{Q|Q104549892}}.
     ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 19:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
    • Jeez. At least that could be |title={{Q|Q104549892}} family tree. - Jmabel ! talk 21:14, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
      For translation purposes, it would be better if that label came directly from the template. In the sample, |entityId=Q104549892|title={{Q|Q104549892}} could be limited to |entityId=Q104549892, if the QID isn't determined directly from the category.
      To sum it up: the following maintenance seems to be needed:
      • (1) fix the label in the template
      • (2) remove |title={{Q|Qnnnn}}
      • (3) remove the duplicate collapsing (as on Category:Thomas Jefferson)

       ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 08:28, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
1 only have to add in Q number once, instead of twice and have title be "Q family tree" appended. --RAN (talk) 15:58, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
2 have collapsed be default but allow that to be changed manually to open. We have Categories called X family or X noble family, here you expect to see the tree by default. --RAN (talk) 15:58, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
3 if using the year function, take out the line space between the two so it is more compact and put the years in parentheses to match our style guide. --RAN (talk) 15:58, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
I would say always collapsed. This is a media repository; family trees are metadata that we may keep here for convenience, but they should not dominate the page. It's easy enough to open it if that is what you want. - Jmabel ! talk 23:03, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
I don't see how to make any individual tree not-collapsed for the display when a category is opened. When I am working on a noble family, it would nice to have the tree open while I am working on it. RAN (talk) 02:09, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
@Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): So for your particular purpose, you can click once to open it. But most people go to a category looking for media. - Jmabel ! talk 06:40, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Categorizing Newspapers by date (YYYY-MM-DD)

Hi, there are a few newspaper collections here on Commons that are categorized by date, for example the Abilene Daily Reporter. Other newspapers are not categorized this way, which makes it harder to find contemporary news. With some newspapers, the amount of files is large enough that I think this work could be delegated to a bot. For starters, there is The Ohio Sentinel, with conveniently labelled files like File:Ohio Sentinel 1952-06-28 - DPLA.... Older files of the same newspaper from 1951 are less convenient: File:Ohio Sentinel August 11-August 18, 1951 - DPLA.... Then there is the Galveston Tribune with file names like File:Galveston Tribune. (Galveston, Tex.), Vol. 17, No. 100, Ed. 1 Tuesday, March 16, 1897 - DPLA.... More examples: File:Gazeta săteanului 1886-05-05, nr. 07.pdf, File:Epoca 1886-05-18, nr. 146.pdf, File:Bukarester Tagblatt 1886-05-02, nr. 095.pdf, File:Томские губернские ведомости, 1886 № 19 (1886-05-15).pdf, Journal de La Haye 03-01-1847 (IA ddd 010258178 mpeg21).pdf.

Is bot-processing feasible? --Enyavar (talk) 16:50, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

There seems to be {{Book}} (most likely) with {{{publication date}}} set to the date. Assuming it is correctly done, or corrected beforehand, a bot can easily categorize that info -- DaxServer (talk) 17:22, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
Why not use Wikidata en SD? Newspaper issues can be itemized in Wikidata with publication date (P577). Examples d:Q45747062 (Category:Journal de Bruxelles nr 76), d:Q46834135 (Category:Journal de Bruxelles nr 83), d:Q62015763 (Category:Journal de Bruxelles nr 90) Smiley.toerist (talk) 08:55, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
Hi, whatever "en SD" is, it seems to not help at all with search results. When I search for "1799-12-17", the Journal de Bruxelles does not appear in the search results (with quote marks not at all, without quote marks not before literally tens of thousands of other manuscripts from different dates, some of them decades/centuries earlier/later than 1799. Furthermore, the Category:1799-12-17 is so empty that it appears as if Commons does not have any media regarding that specific date. Only your link proves the contrary. So I think that WD-en-SD could also benefit from some categorization.
What good are the vast newspaper archives of Commons if they are buried and inaccessible unless you know the title of an accessible newspaper? Please tell me what was in the news around the world, on 1844-02-20 or another random date. --Enyavar (talk) 05:38, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
It is in the category 1799 newspapers. I have my doubts that a specific publishing date is of any use in researching a specific event. At that time there was no instant communication, and all news travelled slowly. So in practice the newspaper got dispatches from different places and times. In the issue of 76 (12 december 1799), there are many dates and places: al in the year 1799:
  • Paris: 3-12 (2X), 29-11, 27-11
  • 20-11 (Marseille), 25-11 (Nice)
  • Genua 8-11, Florence 18-11
  • Lausanne 23-11, Bern 23-11, Basel 25-11, Zurich 25-11
  • Leiden 30-11
  • London 21-11
  • Frankfurt 24-11, Rastadt 29-11
  • Stockholm 15-11
  • Sint Petersburg (Russia) 9-11
  • Istanbul (Constantinople) 29-10
  • Ratisbonne 28-11 (latest incoming news in the morning)
If you looking for a specific event, you must look at all issues, months after. News across the Atlantic could even take more than a month. Smiley.toerist (talk) 09:13, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
That's true, but who expects pre-telegraph newspapers to print news from the other side of the globe? That is why I strongly suspect that the issue of long news-travel times stops being this noteworthy after the 1870s. And even the weird French Revolutionary Calendar dates you give above, are not that problematic.
The thing is that Wikidata is not working either: Yes, Q46834135 = [Journal de Bruxelles (1790-1800)/83-1799] exists and has a publishing date. Now what? There are no links to any other media of the same publishing date, nor are there links to previous or later issues of the JdB itself. The publishing date (P577) is apparently not even meant to be a searchable item on wikidata: "P577 = 17 December 1799" --> No match found. "P577 = 1799-12-17" --> No match found either.
The search function here on Commons actually works: My search for "date = 1897-03-16" immediately spits out a few newspapers as a search result - thankfully - but that still does not mean that the search results would match my request (1897-03-04 and 1897-07-16 are among the results), and newspapers without proper description attributes ("date = 1897" and March 16 only in the file title) are again lost to the search filter. The search function can only help that much, after all.
Furthermore when relying on search, it remains impossible to browse between different newspapers that were released on the same date. Nor is it easily possible to go a few days forward or backward. Take for example The Halletsville Herald, The Abilene Reporter and The Daily Hesperian (I found all of them with the query above): Neither of them is meaningfully categorized at all; while the Galveston Tribune is at least categorized by year. And the categories are certainly not sorted by date either. --Enyavar (talk) 14:23, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

The Journal de Bruxelles is a nice and precious project of nine preserved issues. Categorizing less than 100 categories/files is a task that a dedicated editor can quickly tackle. Sorting all available newspapers on Commons by publication date is a different thing, and I would not suggest doing so if we only had a few isolated copies of each paper.

  • Many big and small newspapers have their own categories, and files with the newspaper issues often follow standardized patterns with regards to descriptions/filenames, like the ones I linked above. Some of them have hundreds and thousands of digitized issues.
  • Many thousands of files already have the attribute of "date = YYYY-MM-DD", right here either in the description on Commons, or in the filename like those I pointed out in the initial question.

It is these that I'd like to be more accessible. Category:Newspapers published 1900-01-01 and basically thousands of days before and after this date, have a huge potential. If a bot can be tasked, one newspaper-archive-category after the other, I believe no day between 1850 and 1950 will not have at least a few files, and that is before Commons editors manually categorize the many "very incomplete" archives (like Category:Le Gaulois du dimanche with merely 27 files).
And sure, I am aware that his is casually asking to create 36'525 categories and more.
And sure, I have more concurrent projects and to-dos than I will ever have time.
And sure, I don't know the first thing about bots.

But this would be a really nice upgrade to the newspaper section of Commons. --Enyavar (talk) 14:23, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Lets start with creating the missing YYYY-MM-DD categories. I just created Category:1799-12-21 and Category:1799-12-31 for the Journal de Bruxelles issues. (And 1800-01-31, 1800-02-05, 1800-02-11, 1800-03-08) If the date gets crowded, we can always add the more specific Newspapers published xxxx categories.Smiley.toerist (talk) 12:09, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Help in closing CfD

Hello, it would be extremely helpful if some users could read the CfD and weigh in their opinion at Commons:Categories_for_discussion/2024/09/Category:Towers_in_Iran#Resolution. —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - uselesscontributions} 17:29, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Just close it guys asap, any way to do so is good, as per the comment there: "To avoid further edit warring and loss of brain cells... " . It is utterly inconsequential how these categories are called, see the arbitrariness categorization theory here: Fuzzy_set. These (potentially mis-)categorized pics are searched for in (and by) multidimensional vector spaces anyway: LLMs; via image recognition engines: Computer_vision, and that is for the starters... Zezen (talk) 05:54, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
Just an FYI, but the CfD doesn't have anything to do with what the categories are called. It revolves around if main categories for towers should be child categories of ones for buildings by shape. Since at least IMO, "tower" isn't a shape. Regardless, it's not about the names of the categories. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:38, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
Re: 'if main categories for towers should be child categories of ones for buildings by shape' - same problem (or lack of it): the debate over whether “towers” should be categorized under “Buildings by shape” could be seen as a matter of degree rather than a strict yes-or-no decision. This approach (see again fuzzy sets, recursive ontology entities...) acknowledges that categories can overlap and that elements can belong to multiple categories to varying extents. In practice, see: Thomas Aquinas who discussed smth similar in Summa Theologiae, Part II (On Angels) Chapter LII § 3: "Whether Many Angels Can Be in the Same Place at the Same Time [e.g. at the needle's pin]"...
The only practical answer: "😔 possibly..." Zezen (talk) 13:03, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Fate of image that is broken, wrong, unused and duplicated simultaneously

The image in question was brought to the Graphic Lab when User:Swiãtopôłk discovered it displays as a white rectangle. After looking at it, I found that:

  • The image uses some exotic SVG features, but is easy to fix
  • Once fixed, it is almost identical (except empty space) to File:OceanGate_logo.svg
  • This is not what the flag of OceanGate looks like. Sources: [1][2]
  • Nothing obvious uses it.

I can think of some solutions:

  • Leaving it alone
  • Overwriting with actual flag, once available (creation requested and I'll probably do it)
  • Overwriting with fixed version
  • Fixing and renaming
  • Fixing, renaming and reusing the name for the actual flag
  • Speedily deleting as broken and usused
  • Speedily deleting as a duplicate
  • Speedily deleting and reusing the name

etc. What's the proper way to deal with it? Gabuxae (talk) 07:42, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

If fixed it's a duplicate, one would use {{Duplicate}} and it would end up being deleted and redirected.
However, as "flag" would be misleading, I'd just have it deleted.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 22:34, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
The file had a classic Inkscape bug, so it should display properly with Inkscape. It would have displayed properly on Commons until April 2024.
The file has been around for a year, so I would not just delete it; there should be a redirect.
For me, I would not bother deleting the file. It represents the OceanGate logo, so any errors are minor. If you believe the file does not represent the flag, then add {{Fact disputed}} with the reason.
So I'm mostly in the fix the file and then leave it alone camp. Glrx (talk) 15:52, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Created a derivative work, unsure how to tag it when uploading

Good evening. I've created a derivative of the work File:Balanced_justice_scale_silhouette,_small.svg, featuring the same image, but overlaid with a red X. The use of this work will be to create a "No legal threats" template, for use on the English Vikidia website. Could you please tell me, while uploading, how I should tag a derivative file, or whether that comes as part of the upload process? Thanks! DaneGeld (talk) 20:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

You can add the {{Derived from}} template to link the original file and its author. And add the {{Derivative versions}} template to the original file to link back. For example: File:Cumulus clouds in fair weather.jpeg and File:Cloud.jpg. William Graham (talk) 20:37, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
Thank you! I have already found the "Derived from" template, which is on the derivative I've created - File:Balanced_justice_scale_silhouette_(crossed_out),_small.png. The other one you linked is the one I have been looking for, so I appreciate your help in linking me to it. Regards, DaneGeld (talk) 20:52, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
@DaneGeld: What happened to the chains for the baskets? Nosferattus (talk) 16:47, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
@Nosferattus: Now that's odd. I see the chains when I look at the file on my PC, and when I view the file on commons. I presume what I have is a cached version which I should have purged. My guess is that I've not grouped the chains with the rest of the image before saving the file, and then exporting it. I'm not too well at the moment, but I'll correct the error tomorrow, and re-upload the file. Thanks for pointing it out! DaneGeld (talk) 19:13, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
@Nosferattus: - This is getting weird now. I repaired the svg that I produced this from, grouped all the files correctly, and exported it as a png file. The new version is now available - but I have a problem with it, that I can't solve. The preview in the file history, now shows the chains in place, and if you click to view the file, they show up too. BUT - They don't show up when you just go to view the file, and I'm mystified as to what the hell I've done. I've never had this much trouble getting an svg to png export to work. Any thoughts? Thanks. DaneGeld (talk) 21:13, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

W. A. Schulenburg of Copenhagen

Can anyone find out more about this photographer File:Sophus_Theodor_Pihl_(1840-1888)_by_W._A._Schulenburg.png to fill out their Wikidata page. --RAN (talk) 18:09, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi. Schulenburg is mentioned very briefly in Bjørn Ochsner's book of Danish photographers before 1920 (in Danish). The book knows his first names and a probable year of birth. Wikidata has been updated with those data. Cheers Rsteen (talk) 04:19, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Requesting some simple category renaming

I believe his should be easy for someone who uses AWB.

The subcats of Category:Interchange Exit Direction Signs in the United States by state all need "Signs" capitalized. "Sign" is part of the proper noun, as documented by the link at Category:Interchange Exit Direction Signs in the United States. - Jmabel ! talk 09:13, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

@Jmabel It might be better of you can add it to User:CommonsDelinker/commands so the bot can do that -- DaxServer (talk) 10:17, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
That would be another way, though if renames are done, Cat-a-lot makes the rest easy.
What I'm trying to avoid is 43 non-trivial by-hand actions, and putting it in User:CommonsDelinker/commands editing each category name into the correct format to make the request. - Jmabel ! talk 20:49, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
@Jmabel: ✓ Done with a bit of AWB and mostly copypasta in Notepad++, see here.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 16:53, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
@Jeff G.: Thanks! - Jmabel ! talk 15:57, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Request to delete previous version of file

Hi. I like to delete older version of a file but I can't manage to find the correct way to do it. Should I go to deletion request, contact administrator or there are a another dedicated page for it ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicolas22g (talk • contribs)

You can add a speedy deletion template to the file with the request to delete the respective file version. You can highlight the file version, because I had a case where the file in total was accidentally deleted :D -- PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 06:10, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
Thanks ! Total deletion is indeed my fear. I'm putting a G7 on these and crossing my fingers that my comment will be taken into account successfully. Nicolas22g (talk) 12:16, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
If it happens, you can request Undeletion with your reasoning --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 18:22, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Problems in Commons:Upload

Hi. As a user of Commons:Upload (with the basic upload form) I have observed problems in the upload process. These problems have ocurred within the last week, and they are intermittent, not continuous. First problem is that there is sometimes no "preview" button. So you can not see the result of your upload and catch errors. You just have to upload. Second problem is, that after the upload you can sometimes not add or edit categories. They are locked, so you have to edit the file information manually. As written, these problems are rather new and do not occur all the time. Have anybody else noticed this? Cheers Rsteen (talk) 04:38, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

This sounds like JavaScript issues, what is your operating system + version and browser + version? Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 08:31, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for going into this. System is Windows 11 and browser is Firefox 130.0 (64 bit). Cheers Rsteen (talk) 12:32, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Category:Unidentified subjects in Japan is a mess

The category Category:Unidentified subjects in Japan is a mess. There are a ton of images that are only tangentiall associated with Japan such as this image File:Forster dexter energy transfer.jpg which is just a diagram in Japanese, this one File:Circuit box.png which isn't even in Japanese but just seems to have an incorrectly labelled Japanese description and was possibly uploaded from Japan. This one File:Diversity of Archaea.jpg which I guess is technically a photo collage but no evidence any of the micrographs were taken in Jaspan. And this one which has straight up no connection File:Eye of the Crimson King.png Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 08:05, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Similar situation to many other countries. It is better there than somewhere in Category:Media needing categories requiring human attention. Sometimes I give an image without category from, say, Indonesia the Category:Unidentified subjects in Indonesia when it is not clear from the filename, the image itself or the (often poetic) description what the essence is. Bad pictures I just leave without a category. For example, someone who speaks Indonesian can tackle a subcategory to put 10% of the best photos in the right category. Wouter (talk) 09:06, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
I tried to nominate Category:Unidentified logos for deletion a few years ago but it got shot down. At the end of the day most of the categories are just used as dumps because people don't want to spend the effort better categorizing the images. 99% of the time the images aren't even unidentified to begin with though. So at least IMO the categories are essentially worthless. Their just an extremely low effort way to empty main categories. --Adamant1 (talk) 11:14, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Issue with Wikidata Item

Hello. I recently created Category:Cage of Agony and matched it to Wikidata item Q129951709. However, the commons category is not pulling data from the Wikipedia page, but rather is reading "Wikidata item Q129951709 has no claims. Please add some." I am not sure how to resolve this and would be grateful for any assistance. McPhail (talk) 15:36, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

@McPhail: It won't pull from the Wikipedia page, it pulls from the Wikidata page, which indeed has no claims.
Also: are the underscores really part of the name? If not, then the label on the Wikidata page is wrong. - Jmabel ! talk 16:03, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for this - it looks like the underscores were the issue. McPhail (talk) 18:13, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Repeated file renaming requests, how to react to their occurence

Hello,

I am a filemover and came across this request. The requested move seems to be for that the new name is similarly styled to the other 2 in Category:DC candidates TSE portraits, but it does not really convince me as it would only be "a bit better looking" (maybe! capital lettering is not nice to read), per COM:FRNOT. Hence, I declined the request. Now, it was back again in the queue (denied again by me). Is there any procedure on how to deal with repeated renaming requests after a denial, or any established way of appeals? Regards, Grand-Duc (talk) 19:11, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

@Grand-Duc: As far as I know there's no formal review process for file moving. In my experience what usually happens when I decline a request and someone disagrees is that they request it again and either I change my mind or I leave it for another filemover to deal with. I don't think I've seen anyone try to get a fourth opinion after two declines from different filemovers. In this case, while criterion 4 obviously doesn't apply I did wonder if Erick Soares3 and KakuLogia+ might be connected in a way that would allow criterion 1 to apply, since they've been making very similar requests. And anyway the overwriting of that file was bad under COM:OVERWRITE and maybe it needs its history splitting. At which point I decided it was all too complicated and I should do something less confusing instead. --bjh21 (talk) 21:31, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
@Bjh21: and the specific dataset is for Category:TSE electoral portraits of 2024 (the general category for this year) or even Category:Files from Portal de Dados Abertos do TSE (about 200 styled the same way in the first page) with almost everything from 2004-2024, while the DC is only for members of this specific party. Criterion 1 is if we were the same uploader, and no, this isn't the case: we are only from the same country, and we are working with this dataset (specially because we are less than a month before the elections and those images are useful in the Wikipédia/Wikidata). Erick Soares3 (talk) 21:38, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
So the rename is from:
to
? This because other files had been renamed?
I DON'T THINK FILENAMES SHOULD BE IN ALL CAPS AND ONE SHOULD NOT RENAME CORRECTLY CAPITALIZED FILENAMES TO ALL CAPS. RENAMES ARE NOT HERE FOR SORTING FILES IN CATEGORIES NOR FOR ACHIEVING SOME COSMETIC GOAL.
Another problem with the file is that an initial photo was overwritten.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 01:53, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
I would retain the number in brackets (which might or might not originat in the Flickr feed and enables or facilates identification of photographs) but no ALL CAPS. Matthiasb (talk) 07:17, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Community Wishlist: Let’s discuss how to improve template discovery and reuse

Hello everyone,

The new Community Wishlist now has a focus area named Template recall and discovery. This focus area contains popular wishes gathered from previous Wishlist editions:

We have shared on the focus area page how we are seeing this problem, and approaching it. We also have some design mockups to show you.

We are inviting you all to discuss, hopefully support (or let us know what to improve) about the focus area. You can leave your feedback on the talkpage of the focus area.

On behalf of Community Tech, –– STei (WMF) (talk) 16:06, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@STei (WMF): : Just check the thread about above this one. Here’s one for the Community Wishlist: the WMF should drop their nonsensical makework, for it breaks tools maintained by the community. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 18:10, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
Sorry, I noticed the typo only now: I meant to refer to the thread above this one, the one about the (still broken) CropTool. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 20:36, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin, these wishes ranked 5th and 11th in the Community Wishlist Survey 2023, #74 in 2021, and #85 in 2022, respectively, and have been mentioned in different discussions off the Wishlist. This is not a nonsensical choice in my opinion. Is it that you'd rather see a focus area for Commons?
This is also not make-work. Community Tech needs to actually implement a focus area and learn as soon as possible the merits and demerits of this focus area concept, as well as take community feedback, before the next annual planning season which plans to take in more focus areas. Templates is a classic example of a focus area to use for our learning.
Please find below a much more formal background on what Community Tech is trying to do around the Community Wishlist and giving the community a clear path to influencing Product and Tech annual planning:
To enhance the effectiveness of Product and Technology work, the overall goal for the Community Wishlist in the 2024-2025 Annual Plan is to better align movement requests and the Wikimedia Foundation’s future plans. Beginning the end of Q1 2024/25, the new Wishlist wants to do as follows:
  1. The Moderator Tools team, which serves editors with extended rights should identify at least two focus areas from the Community Wishlist in Q1.
  2. 3-5 related wishes regarding templates should be bundled, addressed and deployed as improved template features starting Q1 as a proof of concept, guiding the Foundation to incorporate more focus areas into the 2025-26 Annual Plan.
  3. By 2025-26 annual planning cycle, Community Tech must present three focus areas for inclusion in the Wikimedia Foundation’s 2025-26 Annual Plan.
Please note that item #3 hasn't began yet. We are still with #1 and #2.
If you don't mind, please see the focus areas list, perhaps one of them might resonate with you or other groups of users you are familiar with. –– STei (WMF) (talk) 15:07, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
I think that focus area is far less important than other focus areas that would save contributors much time and also less relevant to WMC than other focus areas or proposals. Maybe sharing a link for all proposals that are WMC-related would be useful (such as the one about WMC media dumps or a WMC copyvio-detecting bot). These template wishes all just seem like nice-to-haves without much benefit and which aren't solving a real problem but can and are implemented quite well by editors and bots sooner or later. Prototyperspective (talk) 21:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
Prototyperspective, this is good advise that focus areas relevant to WMC will be more useful. I will do that. Nonetheless the shared/intersecting Wikimedian ways of life made me consider notifying people here too. –– STei (WMF) (talk) 15:17, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
This stuff is probably pretty far down on the priority list, but their relatively easy things to implement in the grand of scheme things and help the dev team get use to working with Commons. At least they are doing something. It seems like you guys expect them to tackle the hardest things on here first. That's not how it works. And seriously, how many people actually wanted data dumps when you suggested it and what problem does it actually solve? Like someone can't create a python script to scrape the site and re-upload the files to archive.org or something. At least IMO the teams shouldn't be wasting their time on things that can be done extremely easily by normal users through scripts. --Adamant1 (talk) 15:28, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
That was just one example and just one of several. Among the problems it solves is server-load from people scraping the site. These things can't be done extremely easily if at all and this is more about a complete than some random small subset. So far, I don't see any reasons for why it would be relatively easy to implement. I also don't see that reasoning anywhere in the focus area or in the post above. I also don't see any reason why some other suggestions wouldn't also be easy to implement but more useful, such as showing categories on mobile. In any case, dumps, which are also backups, aren't wasted time and can't be done easily so your comment doesn't make sense anyway. Not even considering that this isn't about Commons at all so not even get use[d] to working with Commons makes sense. Prototyperspective (talk) 15:41, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
I'm sure they have some kind of metric to decide what can or can't be implemented and how easily they do something. Although I agree that their reasons for working on these specific things aren't clear, but so what? Their clearly at the beginning of the planning phase here. So things will probably become clearer as they work on it. It seems like your just bike shedding though. And I'm not sure what your talking about in regards to it being hard to do data dumps of files. There's plenty of software out there that consumes images from Commons and there's plenty web scrapers that support other websites. A good portion of both of which are open source. So I'm sure it would be easy to create one.
I'm actually kind of tempted to do it myself but there's to many things working on already. You might look into what's already out there and ask the developers to add support for Commons though. Like Gallery-dl supports a ton of websites. Not Commons, but it also allows for adding costume URLs through text files. You might give that a try and let me know if it works. Then I'll give it a try myself if you can't figure it out when I have the time. Or conversely you could just continue complaining about it for no reason. Whichever. Personally, I prefer the proactive DIY approach since at the end of the day we probably don't want the WMF or their developers having control over most of this. That could just be me though. --Adamant1 (talk) 16:26, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
Nowhere do I see them talk about this being easier than the other. You just imagined some random reason in your head. You're talking offtopic. I recently listed available data-scrapers for WMC and there's few and many of them probably don't work or are very impartial. I'm not complaining, you're making offtopic points, I'll look into that software. Dumps was just one random example that is like 5% of my comment but 100% what you're talking about. Prototyperspective (talk) 16:32, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
You're talking offtopic. No, I think your the one doing that by making this data dumps when it has nothing to do with the original topic. All I'm doing is responding to your off-topic complaining. Otherwise be my guest and point out where STei (WMF) said anything about data dumps in their original message. --Adamant1 (talk) 16:40, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
Here I was only mentioning it as an example with 2 words, here you were making this all about this particular example. Case closed. I won't continue this wall of mostly offtopic text. Prototyperspective (talk) 16:45, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
I asked where STei (WMF) brought up data dumps in their original message. Not where you did when this had nothing to do with that. I'm sure you get the difference. Anyway, I made one simple comment about it in response to you bringing it up. To the degree it's off-topic or a wall of text is totally on you for making this about that and getting defense. Maybe keep the conversation on topic, put your ego in check, and try not turn it into a debate next time huh? Personally, I'm just happy they are finally giving the project some attention and working on things. Maybe that's just me though. --Adamant1 (talk) 16:53, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Free online ocr that is the best?

What free online ocr is the best? I have been using https://www.onlineocr.net/ but there must be better. See the poor results here: File:Viola_Gentry_in_the_Times_Herald_of_Olean,_New_York_on_December_24,_1928,_part_1.jpg. Someone was able to get a better quality ocr from their iPhone here: File:Joseph Henderson (1826-1890) obituary in the New York Herald on October 12, 1890.png, but I work from a desktop and hope there is something better online. Any suggestions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk • contribs) 16:21, 17 September 2024‎ (UTC)

I did not try onlineocr.net (I saw the text on the file page), but here is the transcription using WMF tools.
It transcribes the text in the article to the left, but I cannot fault that. It could be fixed by rotating the image and then selecting the transcription area.
Glrx (talk) 17:19, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
  • @Glrx: That is awesome, I will fix up the few errors by hand. I wasn't even aware of this tool. I just added it to my Chrome toolbar. Thank you. I like that it can operate on the url so I don't have to download anymore. Take a peek at the transcription and do a search on the word "Stillman" and see if you can decipher the intention. I want to migrate the transcription to Wikisource if we can decipher that word--RAN (talk) 23:43, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
    @Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ): "I was aviation crazy — and still am." Glrx (talk) 01:57, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

New round of proposed changes to UploadWizard: we are looking for your feedback!

Hi all! The Structured Content team will continue, in the following months, to improve the current user experience with UploadWizard. For this reason, we published on our project page the mockups of our proposed changes to the "Release rights" step.

In short, starting from your feedback received with our first round of improvements carried on in Fiscal Year 2023-2024, we suggest making some more changes to the step in which users select if their media is an “own work” or “not own work”. This includes also changes requested by you regarding adding custom public domain tags or license options, as well as a space to clarify AI prompts for AI-generated media.

We are looking for your feedback on our project's talk page. What do you think of our proposed changes?

Thanks in advance! --Sannita (WMF) (talk) 13:58, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

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