Commons:Deletion requests/File:National Rail logo.svg

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:National_Rail_logo.svg

Converted from a speedy deletion. Possibly PD-ineligible. See also File:BR arrows.png Sv1xv (talk) 14:52, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep If this one is copyrighted, one would need to delete File:Severn Beach Stn sign.jpg... /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 15:01, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely it is not a candidate for speedy deletion, as User:Sladen tagged it twice, although I had requested him to file a regular DR. Sv1xv (talk) 16:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete the logo. Keep signs and other stuff where it happens to be placed. --Simonxag (talk) 10:38, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete the logo. Pmlinediter (talk) 14:45, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Any good reason? Sv1xv (talk) 15:39, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Kept No good reason for deletion given. Sv1xv (talk) 19:25, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:National Rail logo.svg

Re nominated, because according to some off wiki investigations this is still nominally copyright in the UK (labiet one held by the Department of Transport). Would vote for deletion unless someone can get the UK govt dept to issue an OTRS confirming it as OGl at the very least ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:25, 19 May 2017 (UTC) @Pieter Kuiper: ,@Sladen: ,@Pmlinediter: ,@Sv1xv: ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:27, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Why wouldn't the WP:LOGO guidance apply, for non-free logos just like many other current commercial graphics in common use? Welsh (talk) 12:26, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - simple geometric shapes are permitted on commons, as explained in Commons:Threshold of originality

Keep: It falls within {{Pd-shape}}. Useddenim (talk) 18:09, 21 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Move to English Wikipedia: Don't assume that general {{PD-shape}} and general Commons:Threshold of originality are UK standards. The UK has a very low threshold of originality: See Commons:Deletion requests/Two British logos and Commons:Threshold of originality#United Kingdom, in which the Edge logo was ruled copyrighted by a British court because it had a little pointy bit on one of the letters. On the other hand, English Wikipedia follows U.S. copyright standards only, so these files would be safe there regardless of UK copyright. --Closeapple (talk) 23:14, 21 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As per Commons:Licensing: Wikimedia Commons only accepts media that are in the public domain in at least the United States and in the source country of the work. --Nicnote (talk) 00:05, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A compromise position would be to agree on some form of disclaimer like is currently done for trademarks, until this is resolved long-term. Would this work? "This media represents, includes a third party logo, associated with the National Railway network in the UK, or the former British Railways Board. Whilst the position on Commons is that it is too simple in respect of US copyright, other users would be advised to seek the consent of the nominal rights holder in the UK, before reusing this image elsewhere, or commercially.

The BR Double Arrows symbol is also a Trademark, registered trade mark in the name of the Secretary of State for the Department for Transport. See [http://www.nationalrailguidelines.co.uk/download.php?filename=pdfs/NR012.pdf Using the Double Arrow symbol] for usage guidance"ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:53, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This logo is permitted under Commons policy Commons:Threshold of originality and Commmons is an international platform. You would need to get consensus on changing commons policy first before moving to delete permitted images. Cnbrb (talk) 11:20, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's already a contradiction of Commons policy: see Commons:Licensing#Interaction of US and non-US copyright law (must be free in "both the U.S. and the country of origin of the work"). We're talking about whether the work is copyrighted under UK law, not "international" standards: That's why we have examples for each country, like Commons:Threshold of originality#United Kingdom. If it meets the threshold of originality for the country of origin, it's copyrighted; and if it's copyrighted and not licensed, it's not permitted on Commons. This has been Commons policy since almost the beginning of Commons. --Closeapple (talk) 13:36, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. This image was commissioned for the w:British Railways Board a subsidiary of the UK Department of Transport. The logo was first published in 1965[1] and therefore is eligible for hosting here under the 2nd point of {{PD-UKGov}} as an old work of the UK government. Nthep (talk) 11:30, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

British Railways Board was a "Stautory Corporation" not a Govt dept. As I said this needs an "official" OTRS, so its unambiguous. If you want to lobby for it be "unlocked" officially, feel free to contact the Department of Transport directly. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:53, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: Clearly above the very low UK ToO. Not a work of the UK government. Therefore, still under copyright. . Jim . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 10:41, 26 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]